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This is deceiving. It might be true that a third-party vote for PRESIDENT might make a difference (they didn’t make ANY difference in 2008, but they did in 2004 and especially in 2000), but remember there are OTHER third parties too that can pull Liberal votes.
But most importantly, this doesn’t address the core issue of an absolute need for an intelligent independent voice of reason outside the GOP who is willing to run candidates at lower levels and earn its keep. This, in my opinion, and the opinion of many, is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to saving our Republic, because two party Progressive madness over about 80 years is the disease and Barack Obama is just a symptom.
True, we need to replace him, but a) not just any schmuck with an “R” is going to solve our problems long-term, and b) this is a GENERATIONAL war wherein battles need to be waged at every level of Government for limited Government. The GOP, even with the Tea Party insurgency will never do that. This “revolution” is the fourth in as many decades, and nothing is going to change.
If you want to go “lesser of two evils” for the White House because you’re scared of another four years of Barack Obama, go ahead, knock yourself out, but we cannot sit around and wait to give the GOP “one more chance”.
They just had it. They blew it. Time to call it a day and move on. Vote on Principles not on Party.
Sounds fun, unfortunately “AN INTELLIGENT INDEPENDENT VOICE OF REASON,” however important, is going to inevitably take away just enough votes to make its party’s running pointless. Our forefather’s would have hated seeing our culture develop into the two party system that we have today, however THAT’S WHAT WE HAVE. What we need to do is find a competent individual with conservative ideals to run Republican, because that is the ONLY way Obama is going to be defeated in the next election.
Why is that important?
Voting Republican would not be voting for the “LESSER OF TWO EVILS.” Obama is a socialist, evidenced by his actions, and he needs to be replaced. The cartoon is not in the least misleading. He is not saying a strong third party candidate should not run, just that if it does, Obama will get another four years, and HE IS RIGHT.
So lets all vote on principles and not party, and enjoy four more years of Health care bills and executive orders. Personally I don’t really think we can afford that.
Sounds fun, unfortunately “AN INTELLIGENT INDEPENDENT VOICE OF REASON,” however important, is going to inevitably take away just enough votes to make its party’s running pointless. Our forefather’s would have hated seeing our culture develop into the two party system that we have today, however THAT’S WHAT WE HAVE. What we need to do is find a competent individual with conservative ideals to run Republican, because that is the ONLY way Obama is going to be defeated in the next election.
Why is that important?
Voting Republican would not be voting for the “LESSER OF TWO EVILS.” Obama is a socialist, evidenced by his actions, and he needs to be replaced. The cartoon is not in the least misleading. He is not saying a strong third party candidate should not run, just that if it does, Obama will get another four years, and HE IS RIGHT.
So lets all vote on principles and not party, and enjoy four more years of Health care bills and executive orders. Personally I don’t really think we can afford that.
I seem to recall a ‘hand grenade with a bad haircut’ running against G. H. W. Bush that had a little influence over a Presidential election…
But that lillte hand grenade with a bad haircut was SO unbelievably right. We DID hear a giant sucking sound of jobs going overseas. We did see the cost of government expand.
To those that say otherwise…To hell with Republicans, vote your conscionce…do it every time there’s an election. One day there will be enough of us to put a stop to the idiocy of our corporate/union owned Congress.
Our only other options involve bullets or rope, and there will be terrible consequences from those.
The “party gap” routinely cited by the pundits of third party viability and impact upon a hypothetical Republican Presidential candidate is erroneous. Most of these polls ask about a political philosophy, not party affiliation. When political affiliation is asked, the so called party gap disappears. An analysis by Rasmussen (2011) found 35% of adults consider themselves to be Democrats, 33% Republicans, and 32% Independents. When asked (Rasmussen 2009) if a voter is identified with or leaned to a party, the percentages change yet again: 49% identify themselves as Democrats or independents leaning to the Democratic Party, while 41% identified themselves as Republicans or independents leaning to the Republican Party. What this clearly demonstrates is that each party has to draw independents to achieve a majority.
So what happens when a viable Independent candidate enters a Presidential race? We have to take a trip back to 1992. In June, Perot (Independent) led the polls with 39% to 31% for Bush (Republican) and 25% for Clinton (Democrat). When Perot withdrew from the election, Clinton picked up 18% of the votes, Bush 7%. What is really remarkable is that in the run up prior to the election, Gallup (1992) identified the shift away from identification with the Republican Party to the Democratic Party; it was the first time a majority of responses reflected affiliation with the Democratic Party.
So where does an Independent pick up votes? Answer: from Democratic Presidential candidates. Can the right Independent candidate win an election? Answer: I believe so. Which of the two party candidates benefit if an Independent runs? Answer: Republican.
Come on folks. The President has gotten everything else wrong. I’ll bet he is wrong on the impact of an Independent candidate for President too.
Regarding this comment you closed with:
“Can the right Independent candidate win an election? Answer: I believe so. Which of the two party candidates benefit if an Independent runs? Answer: Republican.”
WE are talking about the next presidential election I presume, so please tell me who fits that bill for you as the Independent who can win THIS next NATIONAL election for President? I SEE NONE! Consider how you have presented this question as it’s erroneous. If an Independent (which you’ve capitalized indicating he/she is a third PARTY candidate) runs they’ll likely steal votes from the demonRATic party candidate; however, by simply being in the running he/she will take other votes that would have gone to the Republican Party candidate. Conclusion: An independent running separately does NOTHING constructive FOR the Republican Party candidate outcome. He/she simply almost guarantees that BY SPLINTERING THE VOTE the Republican will not carry a majority of the vote. Furthermore, since our elections are decided by the electoral college and not the popular vote, a third party Independent fragments the country even more than it is now. The worst thing is that same third party candidate pretty much will guarantee that no party will hold a majority in either house of congress. Just great! So in a time of likely the greatest crisis from within this country has ever experienced we are relegated to the STATUS QUO.
A third party candidate is nothing more than a liberal pipe-dream to get BHO re-elected. And quite frankly, the Ross Perot argument doesn’t even apply to 2012 with a socialist as the incumbent. This coming election will be nothing short of a referendum against socialism, and a weak president who has made the economy worse. And hollywoods attempt at swaying the vote by releasing the Bin Laden kill movie in October 2012 will fail. So what Bin Laden is dead. Are things any better for Americans at home?
Dear Max,
Please try at least to make a rational argument. RINOs imitating Democratic hyper-emotionalism is hardly persuasive.
From someone as yourself who is buried to the neck in numbers, polls, and a breakdown of the Independent vote, I don’t think anything I have to say would impress you, so I’ll humor you instead.
I don’t bother myself with polls that cannot capture the mood, the economics, or the drop in American prestige abroad and here at home. The fact is both parties have screwed this nation up right into the twilight zone. We think that being 15 Trillion in debt somehow makes us the richest country on earth. You know how moronic that is? Debt doesn’t create wealth. Ironically, however, for all of our higher education (Ivy League and others) we produce the dumbest politicians who demand of their citizens what government is incapable of doing itself. Such as balancing a budget.
The election to unseat Obama will be decided by the Independents and conservatives that voted against the Republican party in 2008. Considering all of the past slogans the democrats have used in past elections, such as “It’s the economy stupid,” they are feeling the heat. They know Obama has no crowning achievements beyond his socialist agenda, which the majority of Americans oppose.
2012 will be the election of ideologies. The people will be asked to decide on socialism, or capitalism. And if Wisconsin is any indication, conservatives will win hands down. But that doesn’t mean it won’t get ugly, since that is where democrats will take it.
Y’know Max you make rants like this often that are totally illogical. Here you discount someone’s valid comment that he dangled before you like some bait on a bobber, but really for NO REASON at all. You took the bait and commenced to blame BOTH major parties for our current financial mess and deservedly so, BUT then you say the Independents and Conservatives will decide this election. SO WHAT! That may be true, but we damned sure will not have a new President elected from the Independent Party or the Conservative Party now will we! He or she will STILL BE from one of those two major parties you despise so much. Tell me again just how your post was humoring the previous commenter.
So.., what was the purpose of your post? Simply to try to irritate the person who made that comment you responded to. I’ve got my eye on you Max. (Just a little humor there!)
You know the GOP was once a type of third party. A third party win is not impossible and could be a great revolution.
The Republican and Democrate party is just a left/right paridigm that supports one another. Yeah they argue and fight alot but after its all done they are hanging out having dinner together. The real difference is one wants command and control and the other wants anarchy. As crazy as it sounds you can see it if you follow the paper trail.
If not Ron Paul then I’m voting for a third party. Its like choosing between Herod and Nero. Its not a matter of the lesser of 2 evils its a matter of right and wrong.
This is deceiving. It might be true that a third-party vote for PRESIDENT might make a difference (they didn’t make ANY difference in 2008, but they did in 2004 and especially in 2000), but remember there are OTHER third parties too that can pull Liberal votes.
But most importantly, this doesn’t address the core issue of an absolute need for an intelligent independent voice of reason outside the GOP who is willing to run candidates at lower levels and earn its keep. This, in my opinion, and the opinion of many, is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to saving our Republic, because two party Progressive madness over about 80 years is the disease and Barack Obama is just a symptom.
True, we need to replace him, but a) not just any schmuck with an “R” is going to solve our problems long-term, and b) this is a GENERATIONAL war wherein battles need to be waged at every level of Government for limited Government. The GOP, even with the Tea Party insurgency will never do that. This “revolution” is the fourth in as many decades, and nothing is going to change.
If you want to go “lesser of two evils” for the White House because you’re scared of another four years of Barack Obama, go ahead, knock yourself out, but we cannot sit around and wait to give the GOP “one more chance”.
They just had it. They blew it. Time to call it a day and move on. Vote on Principles not on Party.
Butch Porter
National Chairman
The American Conservative Party
http://www.amconparty.org
Sounds fun, unfortunately “AN INTELLIGENT INDEPENDENT VOICE OF REASON,” however important, is going to inevitably take away just enough votes to make its party’s running pointless. Our forefather’s would have hated seeing our culture develop into the two party system that we have today, however THAT’S WHAT WE HAVE. What we need to do is find a competent individual with conservative ideals to run Republican, because that is the ONLY way Obama is going to be defeated in the next election.
Why is that important?
Voting Republican would not be voting for the “LESSER OF TWO EVILS.” Obama is a socialist, evidenced by his actions, and he needs to be replaced. The cartoon is not in the least misleading. He is not saying a strong third party candidate should not run, just that if it does, Obama will get another four years, and HE IS RIGHT.
So lets all vote on principles and not party, and enjoy four more years of Health care bills and executive orders. Personally I don’t really think we can afford that.
Sounds fun, unfortunately “AN INTELLIGENT INDEPENDENT VOICE OF REASON,” however important, is going to inevitably take away just enough votes to make its party’s running pointless. Our forefather’s would have hated seeing our culture develop into the two party system that we have today, however THAT’S WHAT WE HAVE. What we need to do is find a competent individual with conservative ideals to run Republican, because that is the ONLY way Obama is going to be defeated in the next election.
Why is that important?
Voting Republican would not be voting for the “LESSER OF TWO EVILS.” Obama is a socialist, evidenced by his actions, and he needs to be replaced. The cartoon is not in the least misleading. He is not saying a strong third party candidate should not run, just that if it does, Obama will get another four years, and HE IS RIGHT.
So lets all vote on principles and not party, and enjoy four more years of Health care bills and executive orders. Personally I don’t really think we can afford that.
I seem to recall a ‘hand grenade with a bad haircut’ running against G. H. W. Bush that had a little influence over a Presidential election…
But that lillte hand grenade with a bad haircut was SO unbelievably right. We DID hear a giant sucking sound of jobs going overseas. We did see the cost of government expand.
To those that say otherwise…To hell with Republicans, vote your conscionce…do it every time there’s an election. One day there will be enough of us to put a stop to the idiocy of our corporate/union owned Congress.
Our only other options involve bullets or rope, and there will be terrible consequences from those.
The “party gap” routinely cited by the pundits of third party viability and impact upon a hypothetical Republican Presidential candidate is erroneous. Most of these polls ask about a political philosophy, not party affiliation. When political affiliation is asked, the so called party gap disappears. An analysis by Rasmussen (2011) found 35% of adults consider themselves to be Democrats, 33% Republicans, and 32% Independents. When asked (Rasmussen 2009) if a voter is identified with or leaned to a party, the percentages change yet again: 49% identify themselves as Democrats or independents leaning to the Democratic Party, while 41% identified themselves as Republicans or independents leaning to the Republican Party. What this clearly demonstrates is that each party has to draw independents to achieve a majority.
So what happens when a viable Independent candidate enters a Presidential race? We have to take a trip back to 1992. In June, Perot (Independent) led the polls with 39% to 31% for Bush (Republican) and 25% for Clinton (Democrat). When Perot withdrew from the election, Clinton picked up 18% of the votes, Bush 7%. What is really remarkable is that in the run up prior to the election, Gallup (1992) identified the shift away from identification with the Republican Party to the Democratic Party; it was the first time a majority of responses reflected affiliation with the Democratic Party.
So where does an Independent pick up votes? Answer: from Democratic Presidential candidates. Can the right Independent candidate win an election? Answer: I believe so. Which of the two party candidates benefit if an Independent runs? Answer: Republican.
Come on folks. The President has gotten everything else wrong. I’ll bet he is wrong on the impact of an Independent candidate for President too.
Regarding this comment you closed with:
“Can the right Independent candidate win an election? Answer: I believe so. Which of the two party candidates benefit if an Independent runs? Answer: Republican.”
WE are talking about the next presidential election I presume, so please tell me who fits that bill for you as the Independent who can win THIS next NATIONAL election for President? I SEE NONE! Consider how you have presented this question as it’s erroneous. If an Independent (which you’ve capitalized indicating he/she is a third PARTY candidate) runs they’ll likely steal votes from the demonRATic party candidate; however, by simply being in the running he/she will take other votes that would have gone to the Republican Party candidate. Conclusion: An independent running separately does NOTHING constructive FOR the Republican Party candidate outcome. He/she simply almost guarantees that BY SPLINTERING THE VOTE the Republican will not carry a majority of the vote. Furthermore, since our elections are decided by the electoral college and not the popular vote, a third party Independent fragments the country even more than it is now. The worst thing is that same third party candidate pretty much will guarantee that no party will hold a majority in either house of congress. Just great! So in a time of likely the greatest crisis from within this country has ever experienced we are relegated to the STATUS QUO.
A third party candidate is nothing more than a liberal pipe-dream to get BHO re-elected. And quite frankly, the Ross Perot argument doesn’t even apply to 2012 with a socialist as the incumbent. This coming election will be nothing short of a referendum against socialism, and a weak president who has made the economy worse. And hollywoods attempt at swaying the vote by releasing the Bin Laden kill movie in October 2012 will fail. So what Bin Laden is dead. Are things any better for Americans at home?
Dear Max,
Please try at least to make a rational argument. RINOs imitating Democratic hyper-emotionalism is hardly persuasive.
From someone as yourself who is buried to the neck in numbers, polls, and a breakdown of the Independent vote, I don’t think anything I have to say would impress you, so I’ll humor you instead.
I don’t bother myself with polls that cannot capture the mood, the economics, or the drop in American prestige abroad and here at home. The fact is both parties have screwed this nation up right into the twilight zone. We think that being 15 Trillion in debt somehow makes us the richest country on earth. You know how moronic that is? Debt doesn’t create wealth. Ironically, however, for all of our higher education (Ivy League and others) we produce the dumbest politicians who demand of their citizens what government is incapable of doing itself. Such as balancing a budget.
The election to unseat Obama will be decided by the Independents and conservatives that voted against the Republican party in 2008. Considering all of the past slogans the democrats have used in past elections, such as “It’s the economy stupid,” they are feeling the heat. They know Obama has no crowning achievements beyond his socialist agenda, which the majority of Americans oppose.
2012 will be the election of ideologies. The people will be asked to decide on socialism, or capitalism. And if Wisconsin is any indication, conservatives will win hands down. But that doesn’t mean it won’t get ugly, since that is where democrats will take it.
Y’know Max you make rants like this often that are totally illogical. Here you discount someone’s valid comment that he dangled before you like some bait on a bobber, but really for NO REASON at all. You took the bait and commenced to blame BOTH major parties for our current financial mess and deservedly so, BUT then you say the Independents and Conservatives will decide this election. SO WHAT! That may be true, but we damned sure will not have a new President elected from the Independent Party or the Conservative Party now will we! He or she will STILL BE from one of those two major parties you despise so much. Tell me again just how your post was humoring the previous commenter.
So.., what was the purpose of your post? Simply to try to irritate the person who made that comment you responded to. I’ve got my eye on you Max. (Just a little humor there!)
You know the GOP was once a type of third party. A third party win is not impossible and could be a great revolution.
The Republican and Democrate party is just a left/right paridigm that supports one another. Yeah they argue and fight alot but after its all done they are hanging out having dinner together. The real difference is one wants command and control and the other wants anarchy. As crazy as it sounds you can see it if you follow the paper trail.
If not Ron Paul then I’m voting for a third party. Its like choosing between Herod and Nero. Its not a matter of the lesser of 2 evils its a matter of right and wrong.