Comments on: Capitalism vs. Socialism a Short History Lesson/ Behind the Occupy Wall Street Protests

By: Luke Gouldy

Luke Gouldy — Thu, 23 Aug 2012 09:49:41 +0000

I wrote this as a rebuttal to another pro capitalism aricle here, but the site was so kind as to recommend other articles regarding the subject. Of course, a slightly different topic here- the demonization of those brave enough to gather and speak out about the problems mentioned below, as well as many others, and the supposed desire for the installation of a system under the framework of known history. Despite this allegation, Occupy scholars surely expect that something new is needed.

Our main problem fundamentally regarding the current form of capitalism is that it has outgrown itself. Before the days of freight ships and trains, when almost all goods and services consumed were located and manufactured within a limited radius, the free markets ideology worked. Imports would wash with exports typically, but corruption always being a systemic problem in populated areas with significant hierarchy. Over the last century, or so, we have dismantled our already too large national economy under the systems requirement to value profit over all else including humanity.

Jobs lost to technology advances, industrial improvements, and mechanization continue to shrink opportunity for a middle class lifestyle, despite a growing population. It’s just numbers.

We are not in a recession or depression, we are in a decline. There will be no further cycles, as cycles require constants.

To continue with the system under a ‘global order’ would mean a continuing decline of America’s middle and lower classes until a global mean is met.

It is unfair to your friends, family, neighbors, and the people who sit next to you at church to continue to promote a system that is no longer equitable. *Those of you promoting the demonization of protestors should also be ashamed. I’m sure I know how you would have felt about the treatment of historical protestors who demanded safe working conditions, days off, equal pay and such. They were routinely murdered by officials and corporate security/gangs, in case you didn’t know. But those of you critical of the Occupy patriots don’t forego these gains today.*

“I don’t know what to do, I don’t have all the answers. But what I do know is that I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore.”

Learn more that you don’t know at the Facebook page-
Normal Americans Waking Up

By: Conservative News Source

Conservative News Source — Thu, 20 Oct 2011 21:34:22 +0000

I have one thing to say, and it’s rather simple. The fact that we can do this right now, and have the posts stay up, the different opinions expressed, and a healthy debate take place, is why this country is great. Tea Party Movement or Occupy Wall Street – that’s why it’s America folks!

By: Lincoln

Lincoln — Thu, 20 Oct 2011 02:04:42 +0000

And a strange silence came across the land of Redman, things happen that way when the irrefutable, meets irrational anger.

By: Anonymously yours

Anonymously yours — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:02:52 +0000

Edward,

That’s only more of the same spin that avoids dialog on the nature of what really is pressing. We’re likely done with wasting time in dishonest debates like, is “this is the fruit of Obama’s crusade of division” or not. And DJ’s comments on this page about protesters being urine-soaked. Good grief.

We are bringing, very effectively, our issues to the table. In that, we’ve shifted the media debate away from cuts and deficits and towards a discussion about income inequality and finally, thank God, about jobs.

Even House Majority Whip Eric Cantor is forced to play on our issue turf. He’ll talk about income disparity in a speech at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania this week. This past weekend he said on the FOX NEWS political entertainment channel: “Well, we need to both go encourage those at the top of the income scale to actually put their money to work to create more jobs so that we can see a closing of the gap. You know, we are about income mobility and that’s what we should be focused on to take care of the income disparity in this country.”

Your conservative leaders are feeding y’all your talking points, pay attention because you all will step up to address the topic in an honest way eventually. Or not. Some won’t… and the constitutional political process in this country will replace and leave behind those who refuse. Cantor already sees his need for a shift of meme.

As a friend shared, “if you insist on hijacking honest debates about our future by calling it Socialistic Hitler Fascist Death Panel WMD Terrorist Job Killing Kenyan Muslim Regulation Tyranny you should no longer be taken seriously. We don’t have time for your dishonesty. You are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Consider #OccupyWallStreet a nationwide intervention, because some people are drunk on greed and power.”

We’ll wait only so long for holdouts to bring themselves up to speed and engage our issues. OWS will advance this needing dialog between and among the American people. Obviously. You can try to catch up with all of us later, if you want to.

By: Edward G.

Edward G. — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 16:46:03 +0000

Obama is not involved. But this is a perfect manifestation of the class warfare he created and rode to power. It’s all he’s got now, and his demonization and lies about wealthy people and big companies have been swallowed by the vast ocean of ignorants in America and they have come out to denounce capitalism and demand the rich be taken down.

This is the fruit of Obama’s crusade of division. Obama was supposed to be the healer, the guy that would bring all sides together. Instead, he became the great divider for his own selfish purposes.

By: Lincoln

Lincoln — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 21:01:00 +0000

Right on no one who paid mortgage. Not right on the outright FORGERY of foreclosure documents. These were NOT paperwork snafus, not “botched” or paperwork “problems, but criminal forgeries. Moreover, this rush to foreclose, prematurely and illegally, did not afford victims the normal opportunity to possibly save their homes. These are facts. Beyond that, you seem utterly devoid of compassion to those losing their homes. Perhaps when you’re on the wrong end of the mortgage stick some time your perspective will change. Mind you, if folks fail to meet their financial obligations I fully endorse foreclosure, if done legally – point is – many of these were absolutely NOT.

By: Bonnie In Va

Bonnie In Va — Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:49:42 +0000

Wondering why people are blaming businesses for making money? Tax loop holes let these companies get out of paying taxes. INCREASING the taxes on EVERY company that makes 500,000+ a year – NOT helping our economy. Increasing regulations on companies that PUT people to work… not helping our economy. Investing more money into RESEARCH … instead of DEVELOPMENT of products we already KNOW will help our environment … not helping our ECONOMY. Seeing a guy holding a sign that says he has 25k in Student loans… when I know 6 of 7 students that take classes like yoga to keep their GPA up.. so they can get MORE $… Not making me sympathetic. WHY do students in college NEED a health credit like that???

By: DJ Redman

DJ Redman — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 19:36:52 +0000

Dear Anon, two can play that game, how about this video, of a OWS protester crapping on a police car? Will that make MSNBC tonight?

http://www.breitbart.tv/defecate-wall-street-protesters-trash-gotham-defecate-on-nypd-car/

Oh those lovely kids!

By: DJ Redman

DJ Redman — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 19:23:47 +0000

Kids with economics degrees, standing with people demanding a living wage “regardless of employment?” What planet do you live on Todd? Would you put your life’s savings in the hands of a tattooed, urine-smelling, long haired freak who looks like he has been on a lifelong crack binge?

Personally, if I had a valid reason to be at a protest, and saw a bunch of lunatics making the ludicrous demands these wanna-be Socialists and anti-Americans are making…. I wouldn’t be caught near them, period. I,d get the hell out out there, as my protest would be invalidated by associating with the Communists, Anarchists, Socialists and Union political vote-buying activists that we see at these protests now. But then again, I am a firm believer in American freedom and prosperity, the result of which stems solely from our free market system of the past 200+ years, while these protesters seem to want nothing more than a free ride. Erase all debt! Give me a job whether I am qualified or not! Everyone deserves a house, regardless of the ability to pay for it! VIVA la Revolucion! And the most ridiculous propaganda statement of all, to come out of these protests: We are the 99% !

By: DJ Redman

DJ Redman — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 19:10:17 +0000

Yes quite right: Those who have paid up their mortgages are not being “illegally” foreclosed upon. State and federal lending laws prevent that. yes some incompetent mortgage sellers have botched the paperwork, but again no one can be evicted if you pay your mortgage on time.

Of course if you enter a contract and do not have the proper knowledge, or seek the proper help in understanding exactly what you are signing, then you get what you deserve. The mortgage paperwork problems will eventually be sorted out. Just because someone forgot a notary sttamp on a piece of paper, no one is going to start foreclosure unless you are not paying your mortgage, PERIOD> THAT is the fraud the OWS propagandists are trying to promote.

By: Lincoln

Lincoln — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:33:46 +0000

Your posts are significantly over the top lambasting the other side, this techniques demeans your arguments and makes you look like rampant ideologue. I’d cut back and try your hardest to respect the other side’s opinions as hackneyed as some of them are.

By: Lincoln

Lincoln — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 16:24:31 +0000

Not quite right, foreclosure documents, thousands of them, were forged. Mind had they not be forged, they still likely would have been foreclosed at a later date, but still illegal is illegal.

By: DJ Redman

DJ Redman — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 23:44:02 +0000

NOT ONE person who is up to date on mortgage payments is being “illegally foreclosed on” If you took out a mortgage you really couldn’t afford you deserve to be living under a bridge like the rest of the idiots who do not understand that if you want something, you have to work and pay for it in America. Just because there are problems with the paperwork, you do not get evicted or foreclosed upon. It is simple: Pay your mortgage. This kind of ridiculous rhetoric stems from the liberal idea that “everyone deserves a house” crap that Fannie and Freddie were pimping which caused the housing crash. They got their houses under fraudulent qualifications( or none) and lo and behold they can’t actually pay for them! isn’t that strange? Now they want to live in them for free, which isn’t really free as they expect taxpayers to pay for them for them. Sad, moronic Liberal ideology there. Meanwhile they hate the banks for trying to make them pay for the mortgages they signed a contract to do. After all, Liberal morons in Congress like Nancy Pelosi told them they have the “right’ to own a home, regardless of actually being able to pay for it, so now they believe it.

By: Lincolon

Lincolon — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 23:30:12 +0000

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage. (SOME foreclosures were illegal and the big end of these were simply foreclosed prematurely.)
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses. (“Impunity” it just ain’t so.)
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. (BS, I’m ready to hire a black, transsexual hermaphrodite with strong homosexual preferences to be my spokesperson for the Cub Scouts of America)
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization. (Wacko Marxism)
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices. (So you folks don’t want to eat chicken, pork or beef, as people have been eating since time immemorial? You’re entitled to your opinion, but cruelty, torture – over the top)
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions. (This is pro-union double-talk for when they lose their exorbitant pensions, excessively high pay, and Cadillac health benefits and want even more of all that and for us taxpayers to pick up the tab)
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right. (Hostage? Did someone force you to take the loan? You couldn’t work and save your tuition or go to a less expensive school and forego loans. A right? Exactly where in the Constitution does it say that?)
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay. (TRUE)
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility. (Conjecture)
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance. (Some truth here, how widespread is another story.)
They have sold our privacy as a commodity. (TRUE)
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. (If they’d done that your post wouldn’t have been here, would it?)
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit. (It happens, is the exception, and is often severely punished.)
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. (Oh, capitalism has failed say you sitting in your air-conditioned home, firing out emails on your computer and driving a late model car, I don’t think so, this gets the NONSENSE award)
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. (TRUE)
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. (If someone could produce a viable green car, it would sell like hotcakes, same for every other form of energy, this is Marist BS)
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit. (Some TRUTH here, parts of capitalism, like any system can get pretty ugly)
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit. (Gee, and all the other systems in the world are running smooth as glass, right?)
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media. (So YOU are informing me, somehow I trust them way more than you)

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt. (So just what is your plan for revamping the legal system? And what Congressional or State representatives have you elected to achieve your goal. We have a system, like any system its got its shortfalls.)
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. (No documentation here, moreover, you single out the USA as THE culprit here, so Iran, North Korea and a list infinitum gets a pass?)
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. (Let’s see we throw away all the weapons and let North Korea and Iran have ‘em, next plan, please.)

By: Todd

Todd — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 06:30:36 +0000

One more thing, almost forgot:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/specific-demand-and-action-list-for-washington-dc/