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Patriotism and The Draft

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  1. Doc,

    Don’t take too much offense that I am beating up on your “Compulsory Service Pan.” I don’t have to read it to understand it’s a terrible idea for a free republic.

    From one of your apparent heroes…

    “It’s time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. …

    Here’s how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They’ll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we’re hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities’ most pressing needs.”
    (Rahm Emanuel)

    Or maybe your endorsing Barack Obama’s plan to have a “Civilian National Security Force, one that is just as well funded as the Military to meet our national objectives (or BS to that effect.)

    Now do I sound like I’m jumping the gun? Or should I hold my breath that YOUR plan is so much better?

    • When I’m good and ready I’ll post my pla and you can assault it all you want and I’ll gladly take you on.

      Anyone who cheers the fenderhead Maines and cannot understand why this nation should maintain a standing armed force able to deal with any threat is completely irresponsible and thinks freedom bears with it NO RESPONSIBILITY.

      My plan would encourage many who serve a first tour to stay in as a career. Constantly retraining new people to the same tasks over and over is expensive and inefficient. The closer the system comes to being a mostly career military populated armed forces the better. And guess what? I’m old school, when the attitude was that every ‘swingin’ d*ck’ should serve with minimal exceptions. Unfortunately the system always had loopholes for the sons of the well-to-do. Mine won’t! Rich man’s son, poor man’s son…Everybody should share the responsibility for staying free as a nation. Communist my *ss!

      The present system has a limited number of people paying everybody’s dues who are on the sidelines as civilians and never serve. Three and four tours because we don’t have sufficient troops under arms is what we have today. As appears to be your manner, you ASSume much and are wrong again. The Patriot Act has nothing to do with the compulsory military service I referenced and I’m NOT for what it allows now. It grants the Executive too much latitude and power under the guise of “national security”. When Obama was running he bad mouthed Bush over that Act. Now he covets the same excesses ity gives him.

      (Note: If i don’t respond promptly it will be because I’m off-line and this hard drive is in the shop.)

      • Doc,

        I am very interested in reading your plan. When you have posted it, please reply back to my thread here so I don’t miss it.

        I am looking for an “active” site, one with frequent exchanges. So far, CDN isn’t providing those daily exchanges to keep active debates interesting.

        I see you are a retired navy vet. Thank you for your service. By your handle, I am guessing you served as a HM. You guys are awesome in my eyes.

        We may have differing opinions and viewpoints on a myriad of issues. That is normal. I would appreciate if you could tone it down a bit with the “mud-pit” approach to debating these ideas. If you were a Navy Chief in the mess, hey I would say “go for it, Chief!” But this isn’t a ship. We are just two civilians debating conservative philosophy…. to be sure neither of us “owns” it.

        Your friend, Max

        • Not a problem. I have a definite tendency to aggressively support my beliefs. Not intending to be contentious really, just principled. I welcome debate and authoritative references for corroboration of points being made.

          The only reason I haven’t yet posted that new topic is this computer is limping long now and I want to get it checked out before it crashes completely leaving me unable to respond.

          Best to You, doc

  2. This isn’t Israel, or Switzerland for that matter. While I don’t disagree with the basic premise of “ways to instill patriotism” in our youth, the draft, or compulsory service, isn’t desired or needed in the U.S. military. There are many arguments on both sides, but having served my country for 25 years in a military uniform, the last thing I needed was an incredibly high turn-over rate, with the vast majority of them not wanting to be there. There aren’t enough babysitters. The reason our military is the best in the world is we don’t force dirtbags to serve.

    And then you would have exempt groups to deal with, from religious reasons, to homosexuals, and everything in between.

    It would also bankrupt the U.S., not that we aren’t already. However, under current law, every one who serves active duty qualifies for the post 9/11 GI Bill (it only takes 3 years to earn 100% benefit). Free college for everyone.

    Compulsory service is done for basically two reasons: First, they are for really small countries with enormous security threats (Israel). Second, socialists leaders use it as a means of control, evidenced by FDR enacting legislation in 1940, and ended by a Republican in 1973. In 1980, Carter once again made registration mandatory, which continues today.

    • Max, you’ve jumped the gun. You took off running with a myriad of ASSUMPTIONS of what my “…a plan titled Compulsory Military Service” might advocate for. As a law that word mandatory doesn’t men draft.

      I’m a vet also and not by any stretch a ‘shallow’ thinker. My plan hardly advocates what you think it does. You also missed this front-end part of the same sentence I quoted from just above >>> “Not a draft as we knew in the past with too many loophole exceptions, but…”. Accent upon NOT A DRAFT.

      Before I put my ideas down to paper I gave them great consideration. You may want to rein up until I post that topic for discussion as a separate item.

      This topic was intended to relate to how patriotism and the idea of a draft are linked, thus that title. The idea that in the past we saw military service as an obligation to our country so at all times we would have a standing and competent armed forces ready to defend us and our national interests. These fenderheads like Maines, who I use as the idiot in the headlights glare, have no conception about a sense of CIVIC or NATIONAL RESPONSIBILITY to her nation. She’ a “taker”! She just thinks were free and that’s it, so what! Never mind how we remain free, not what it took to get us this far down freedom’s road.

      • Doc, (anonymous) and inklings of compulsory service are Socialistic and Communistic by nature. I don’t care how you dress it up.

        I say thank God for the Country that tolerates “federheads like Maines.” I’d rather box her up by the thousands than sign on to your compulsory plan.

      • I could watch Scidhnler’s List and still be happy after reading this.